Legacy:Mod Ideas/Reversed CTF

Mod ideas for UT 2003 – Reversed CTF

Description

The rules are almost identical to regular CTF, with the important difference that the team must bring its own flag to the enemy base and touch the enemy flag there. If a flag is dropped and touched by an enemy, it's sent back to its base.

Interested Scripters

If you are interested in developing this mod for UT2003 then add your name to the list. Once you start development you should indicate that below (and hopefully include a link to a journal page). Before you start development you should also check this section to see if anyone else has started.

Wormbo: I have started making this mod but got stuck with the bot AI. It is now available as a Spare Part from my homepage for others to use for (almost) whatever they want. (also see Wormbo/Developer Journal)

Discussion

Wormbo: It's basically like starting in the opposite bases, but that would have sounded boring. :)

EntropicLqd: hee hee. Shouldn't be too hard to do either. I wonder if you could do it using a mutator that simply swaps the teams of the player starts over. The bot AI might not be smart enough to figure out what to do, but I see no reason why it wouldn't.

Wormbo: I'd like to have the team carry its own flag, so just switching starting points isn't enough.

EntropicLqd: Switching the start positions over is flawed anyway - because the starting base colour would be wrong. What you'd need to do instead is swap the flag skins, and the flag's FlagBases. I guess you'd have to tweak the HUD so it switched the flags around but I'm sure you could do it without touching any of the actual Flag code. It's just a matter of creating the right illusion.

Wormbo: I think I'll rewrite some of the flag code, but I'll need to investigate the existing code a little more before making any bigger decisions.

Flashman: As for the bot stuff, if you create a normal ctf, and swap the flags (I know thats not what u want) then the bots know enough to pick up the flag and run.

ZxAnPhOrIaN: This seems easier than the original CTF!

Wormbo: It sounds easier because you start near the flag you have to pickup, but it could be harder than you think. Usually the enemy flag won't be there when you break into the enemy base for the capture. You'll have to rely on your team to return it just in time so it is either still there when you want to touch it or the enemy flag carrier is not too far away so you can "solve that problem" yourself.

ZxAnPhOrIaN: Okay... Look at the table:

CTF Types
Regular	Reversed(this mod)
Respawns at base	Respawns at base
Picks up powerups	Picks up powerups
Gets the opponents flag	Picks up own flag
Heads Home	Heads for apponents base
Scores point for team	Scores point for team
Heads back to enemys base for stealing the flag, may get killed	Suicides and ends up at base for easy flag taking

GeniusDex: It could be a better tactic to keep the enemy flag at their base once you've scored a point. Probably someone else is at your base to pick up the flag and run for the enemy base, but i doubt there will be much people in the enemy base if you score a point.

Wormbo: GeniusDex is right. Reversed CTF has much less free-for-all elements than regular CTF. You can't just grab the flag, rush to the enemy base and score. Usually the enemy team will run towards your base and now both teams have a problem: The flag is missing and nobody can score. The key now is to both protect the own flag carrier and kill the enemy flag at the same time.
Your table is only a rough overview of the flow of the game, but nowhere near the individual bot's tasks. I think when somebody reaches the enemy base and eventually scores a point, then he/she should put up a tent near the flag and make sure it stays where it is, so the next teammate who arrives with the flag

1. doesn't have to fight his/her way through the hoards of enemies all alone
2. doesn't have to wait for the flag to be returned

Birelli: I imagine that in most cases the game will quickly have the flags switched over just like when both flags are out in regular CTF and the FC's are hiding back at base waiting for their own flag to be returned, with the crucial difference that the enemy is respawning in the base that the FC is in! Definitely a lot of heads-up teamwork needed for this one, this should be awesome. :-)

Blaaguuu: Seems to me, that it woudl be a good idea to make it so when the flag is return by ay fashion other than scoring, then thre shoudl be a 10 second delay before the owning team can grab the flag from the base. this would prevent base campers form crowdign around their own flag, and grabbign ti as soon as it is returned, leaving no time for the other team to score. sound good, no?

Wormbo: Nice idea. Development is on hold right now, though. Due to lack of time for bot support. :(

Col.ONeill Well, this is just a quick idea about how I would do this:

Um, let`s say you just have to change the textures of the flags, and the starting points of the teams, so that the blue team starts in the red base, but in the reed base is a blue flag that can be captured. So the Bots are trying to capture it the normal way, but it seems like they are carrying their own flag. - Sorry, if this is a bit confusing, my english isn`t very good, but i think you know what I mean. This wouldn`t need any AI scripting or changes...^^

Well, I hope this short Idea may help you... Good luck.

Wormbo: This is almost what I do right now, but bots have no clue about team work.

Col.ONeill Do you realy need teamwork ? I mean, the only things that you need are some bots that are carrying the flag to the "enemies" base and some bots stayin' in their base to protect it. It can`t be that hard to do this, well I don`t know anything about scripting or AI tweaking, but I can`t believe that it`s so hard to teach these simple things to bots. They must be intelligent enought to learn this...

Foxpaw: Instead of switching playerstarts, why not switch the flagbases? That way you will be in the base that is the right color. You may also have to switch the skins of the flags and possibly make a small modification to the HUD if you don't want it to constantly say that you are carrying the enemy flag/they have yours. The bots support seems simple to me: Defending bots attack the flag carrier if they have your flag. Attacking bots will do the same, but will attempt to carry the flag while doing so. The only thing that the bots will not do normally is cover you while you wait in the enemy base for the flag to be returned.. but they will do that if you set them to cover you.

Wormbo: I can't continue this mod. :( If anyone wants to, feel free to download it from the URL mentioned above.

UArchitect: i beleive all of this can be done WITHOUT any new scripts classes mutators or anything, and im so sure of it...im gonna go do it now and post it on nalicity when its done (CTF-Reversor)-keep a lookout

Wormbo: Well, making a new map is no biggy. The key is to make it work with any existing CTF map. Reversed CTF itself works (you can get it from my Spare Parts page), only the bot AI is missing.

UArchitect: aah i see...well if im thinking strait it should be fairly simple....(not that i would know how to do it :P) if you made the mutator/mod to swap the flag positions, and also swap the flag colours

that should be the basics, i cant really see ai getting a big problem..the only problem i see is bots sitting defending the opposite bases flag (thinking its thiers)...which if you look at it another way...it is..but with a diff colour

so youl have to find a way round that...rest of it is fairly simple i should think..anyway im probably talkin rubbish so...zzip

DaWrecka: I think UArchitect might be on to something. While I was reading through the mod idea, I thought of this method myself, before I read what UArchitect had said. If it hasn't already been tried, it might be worth having a go at.