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This is just a general rant about what seems to be most peoples outlook on playing UT on public servers, which mainly consists of 'if its spammy, its a n00b weapon', or for some people 'if you kill me with it, its a n00b weapon and you're a n00b too', and this attitude has been starting to annoy me for quite a while ...

The most recent thing (and half the trigger for this page) is to do with a discussion on the gaming forums of my ISP (yes, my ISP hosts gameservers! neat, huh?), in which it was being debated whether to re-enable the redeemer in the public servers.

After reading the thread thouroughly, I can see that many people do not want it enabled, because it's 'skill-less'. Why are people so obsessed with this all important skill? Why do people have to worry about whether their weapon of choice is a 'n00b weapon' and people will bitch at them for using it, or whether its a weapon that takes this 'skill' to use.

And the fact that enabling the deemer could 'scare off' some of the higher-level clan players that occasioanlly go on the servers. So they're catering for the few '1337' people, and leaving the 'n00bs' or the people who want to have fun out in the dust?

The deemer is called 'skill-less', but it seems whatever weapon you use will be considered 'skill-less' by someone, mainly because of the fact you killed them with it.

Flak is 'skill-less', you just spam it and hope it hits. N00B!!

The bio-rifle is 'skill-less', you plaster it over the walls in the general direction of your opponent and hope they die. N00B!!

The shock-combo is 'skill-less', because you're a shock-whore. And for some reason that also makes you a 'N00B!!

Now those, and several other weapons in UT are considered 'n00b weapons', mainly because you managed to kill the whiner with it. But of course if they were using the weapon, it takes incredible skill to use, and is not a n00b weapon at all!

When I go on a public server, I go there for fun. I dont go there for a serious match at all. If I wanted a 'proper' match, I'd join a league, or play on a clan server, if not, I'll head over to a public so I can have a laugh.


The answer? "f*ck off ang get skillz n00b".


Note: These are my personal views, any comments you may have, please post in the 'comments' section.


Are you '1337' or are you a 'n00b'? What are your opinions on some players (especially higer level players) obsession with this 'skill'?

Mychaeel: Employing skill is fun for most people, as opposed to just racking up as many frags as possible with weapons that make as much boom as possible. That has nothing to do with being a "higher level player" or not, it's just a matter of attitude.

Will: I dont think you're grasping the point mych. The main 'moan' here is about their general attitude towards weapons which are considered skill-less by them and other higher-level players. When I go to play for fun, I dont expect to be moaned at because I killed someone with the biorifle. I want to play without having to conform to their rules about which weapons to use, or you get insults scorlling across your screen. Fun is playing properly, not playing to some set of rules about which weapons can be used.

I do not disagree that skill is fun, I would probably enjoy it more ifd I was a better player, but I do NOT insult people who may be better or worse than me just because they kill me with a weapon that is considered a 'n00b' weapon.

And its their attitude problem that irks me, not the fact that they moan.

Mychaeel: Bickering about other players' style of playing in a game is always lame, I agree. But if the discussion is whether to allow mass destruction weapons like the Redeemer on a server or not, my point is valid. – I like to use the Redeemer myself occasionally, but if its presence in a map forces me to either adapt and constantly camp its respawn point myself or be fragged by it all the time by a distinct other player who camps it, that takes away my fun playing on that server. My reaction would be not to play there, though.

ZxAnPhOrIaN: In my mind, I think that the Sniper Rifle's zoom is a noobish feature, also. The user's camp and hope for the best.

Mychaeel: Camping is the idea behind a sniper rifle. Otherwise it's just a precision rifle. (Which it is, partly, in Unreal Tournament. For one the rate of fire is too high. AvP2's sniper is much more sniper-like in many respects.)

Birelli: I could easily make my own rant on this topic, and I'm sure it would be very long, but I like the way you said it here Will. Killing someone with a bio rifle can either be the epitome of "skill" with a weapon or random luck. Either way it's a carefully balanced weapon, which is not very effective as a spam tool (you just step back, this isn't hard), or it's an extremely powerful precision-lob weapon, much like the secondary fire of the flak cannon (if anything requiring more "skill" than the flak cannon secondary because the higher rate of fire and lower damage mean you have to hit the opponent with much more frequency to make a kill than a single well-placed flak grenade).

I also don't buy the argument about the redeemer, a "good" player can avoid it fairly easily on a large level where you can see it coming, and if you can hit someone with it in close-quarters without getting killed in the blast you either have great weapons-firing-dodging skills or great skill at guiding it through tight spaces.

Basically, the "spam" weapons of UT are ineffective against true highly-skilled players, and every single one of them is very effective if applied "skillfully". Another way of putting it is: the skill of the player yielding the weapon has a lot more to do with it than the properties of the weapon itself, which is I think part of what you are getting at Will.

Tarquin: Flak and Bio are so non-noob weapons. I can splat goo all over the place, and still kill nobody except myself.

Mychaeel: Yes, I can escape the Redeemer. Doing so, when I'm in the middle of a fire fight, requires me to abort that fight. If I have to do that all the time, it gradually takes away my joy of playing. The Redeemer is, alas, a weapon you can effectively only run from.

Tarquin: it's possible to shoot a redeemer, but it has to be from a fair distance to avoid the explosion.

Mychaeel: Technically it's possible (and the explosion is much smaller if you manage it, more like a rocket explosion), but as the Redeemer is a very small moving target and its actual collision cylinder doesn't correspond with its visual appearance, I dismiss that possibility as "practically irrelevant."

Ars-Magna: What I hate is when the players who actually do have sk1llz LOL at the n00bs and how much they suck. I play the game to have fun, not because I'm good (I'm horrible). When I go on a public server where everyone is nice and compliments the n00bs (me) on good shots, it makes my day a lot nicer, and I actually have fun. Games where the l33t slaughter and then mock everyone else are just plain not fun.

Claw: Heh, in UT2k3 the Redeemer doesn't explode when shot down, and I think it's easier to do also. Apart from that, I can only agree with Will. People should accept the game "as is" or stay away from public servers.

Dark Pulse: I've had very few people whine with me. Now, I'm no UT God, but I AM Very, Very good, and I can kill with any weapon. (You should see some people's faces when I just run around and Translocate into them. ;)) If someone kills me, I don't give a second thought about it, because a good player will not waste time talking smack unless the kill was an especially satisfying one. They'll be respawning ASAP, looking for Weapons/Armor/anything to not get placed in 46 little bodybags. As for the Redeemer, I don't even bother shooting it down. I just hide. You'd be amazed at how well a pillar will protect you from a Redeemer explosion, provided you place yourself there carefully enough. Sure, I still get stuffed sometimes, but more often then not I'll wait for the shockwave to dissapate, then calmly step out and blow my opponent's head off with a well placed Sniper Rifle shot. THEN I laugh. To put it short, a weapon isn't cheap, no matter what anyone says. If someone keeps whining, letthem whine, or if you're the Server Runner, consider kicking them if it's repeated. All's fair in love and war, and if you're not good in the first place, yes, you will leave the server with your ballbag in a sling. That means you should practice more offline, and come back a bit later. I don't shy from a map because it as a Megaweapon, or a Shieldbelt, or a UDamage. My Favorite maps have at least one of those, and usually two or three. If you can't play on a map just because of them, and stay away from those maps, then you're really not playing the game at all, I figure.

Mychaeel, I actually don't camp with the sniper rifle. (Shocker, eh?) I do use it a lot, though, simply because it's easy for getting Headshots. What easier, sure-fire way is there to end a fight then to decap someone with your trusty Peace-Maker? ;) Now, I'm not saying I use it ALL the time - I switch weapons according to the situation. But it's one of the ones that I'm bound to use regularly.

Ars, I agree with you there. Sure, it's great to be skilled, but if the person is obviously weaker then you, don't gloat. Me and another guy I play (BASTARD) Taunted and ridiculed each other so much that someone actually thought we were bitter enemies. But we weren't - we were just two good players, playing the Mindgame portion of the game, to each other.

Sorry that this post is so long... I just had a major opinion on how I feel. :)

GHouck: I think a large part of what discourages many (like myself), is the fact that we don't even care if were good or not, we just want to play the game and have fun. I have a full-time job, a wife and a teen-age son, and I just don't get to play as much as many others do, besides that my 35-year-old eyes and reflexes are, well, 35 years old. What is wrong, is when one is alienated from the online scene because they're not the best. I've seen people winning by 40+ kills complain to the lowest scoring player that they "took a cheap shot". As I said before, I, and many others, don't have the time to practice enough to be the best at ANY game, but some act as if there's some great crime in that. If I have free time to be on the 'puter, I'm mostly modding, and although I'm not the greatest modder, I've made a few things (for ut2004) that have gotten me compliments. I had just started learning to mod for HL2, when some buttheads talked so much trash to myself and a couple friends in a CSS game, we decided the HalfLife community was not worth modding for. I'm not saying that we would have made the next Counterstrike, but I just wish that people would understand that EVERYBODY has a place in the community if they want it.

Prospero: The trick is to find servers with decent admins who think like you do. Anytime people can annonymously wave their wangs and pee on the carpet without any repercussions people will rise to the occasion. Honestly I tend to play more CS than UT for that reason; there are a lot of servers with very active admins who like to keep their carpet clean. The clean carpets lure in players who also like dry socks, and communities of non-neanderthal gamers form, which makes for an awesome gaming experience where skill doesn't matter.

GHouck: That's very a true, simple, and direct way of looking at it. I admit, that I don't have much patience when it comes to things like this also. Also, I don't actually play enough to warrant spending much time searching for a server that works well for me all around, especially since I live in Alaska, so most servers give me fairly high pings. For now, I'm content modding and botmatching mainly, with the occasional lan game.

Bob_The_Beheader: I play online often enough, and I suck (visably and obviously, to anyone I play with) However, I've had people calling me a n00b maybe, twice. I am, to be sure. Maybe my regular server just caters to friendly players, but I feel sort of adopted by it and those who frequent it.

sageriku: It's interesting to see these "l33t" players trash-talking other players, and then turn around and complain about weapons that somehow threaten their seemingly all-powerful "l33t"-ness. Strategy isn't about complaining about the opponents advantages. It's about avoiding the strong and striking the weak. Calling a weapon a "n00b" weapon and trying to ban it from existence certainly isn't adapting to the opponent. On the other hand, beyond just playing the game, if a certain player has amassed incredible skill with one weapon and wishes to create a monopoly by eliminating all other weapons that would threaten their power, and they collected enough public momentum to get those weapons eliminated, it would be quite strategic in winning the game, but that's not the point of the game. The point is to have fun, where skills are rewarded, but not given total power over the game itself.